Maybe they are Charles Barkley or Kareem or Magicstill great in their own right. Good schools dont lose students at that rate, and you can see the UC number was just 1% last year. Your email address will not be published. I cant determine if attending WashU will actually help me get a leg up securing employment in Wisconsin and worry that Id be essentially making everything harder for myself (moving, having to take the bar, not buying a home) by going to WashU. Thanks for the message. Which schools in particular if u dont mind me asking? Florida Agricultural And Mechanical University, Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis, Massachusetts Institute Of Technology (Mit), Missouri University Of Science And Technology, State University Of New York Health Science Center At Brooklyn, Suny College Of Environmental Science And Forestry, The University Of North Carolina At Charlotte, The University Of Texas Health Science Center At Houston, The University Of Texas Health Science Center At San Antonio, The University Of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center, The University Of Texas Medical Branch At Galveston, The University Of Texas Rio Grande Valley, Uniformed Services University Of The Health Sciences, University At Buffalo Suny School Of Engineering And Applied Sciences, University Of California, Los Angeles (Ucla), University Of Illinois At Urbana Champaign, University Of Maryland Baltimore County (Umbc), University Of Massachusetts Medical School Worcester, University Of Tennessee Health Science Center, University Of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. So I expect to see movement the other way soon enough. This is #30 vs #8its close enough that I would stick with the feeling you seem to have that Wisconsin is the better choice (that actually means more than usual given my antipathy towards Wisconsin . The question is, does your son have the kind of personality that would seek out and develop such a relationship? Am I shutting doors on myself by going to a #30 school that would otherwise be wide open had I chosen #8? I am considering attending law school at the University of South Carolina or the University of Miami. Hi its Nikki. As a bit of background, my LSAT is in 3 weeks time and I feel alright with the RC and LG sections (thanks to your Bibles ofc; Big fan here!). Is Villanova a Ivy League school? Last, lets talk about your friends who are basically insisting that you take on $273.5K in debt. Sure! 2. Long term, I would prefer not to be in Atlanta/Houston/Dallas, but not totally opposed to that. Selected Columbia. Michigan pros: Best ranked school, extensive alumni network, a Michigan degree will likely stand out from the crowd of Wisconsin degrees when I make my way back home after school, great career services office, will easily let me go somewhere else such as Chicago if I change my mind and decide I dont want to move back to Wisconsin Michigan cons: not a full ride, might be harder to make connections in the market I am shooting for after graduation, delay purchasing a house/putting down roots in Madison, WashU pros: full ride at #16 school, solid career services office, might be fun to live in new city WashU cons: again may be harder to make connections back in Madison, WashU seems pretty focused on biglaw, Id probably rather stay in Madison and I dont know if WashU will really give me a leg up with my specific goals, Wisconsin pros: I know for certain I will be happy living in Madison, full ride, can make connections easily in my target market Wisconsin cons: I would be passing up the same exact offer at a much higher ranked school, Wisconsin dropped 14 spots in rankings this year, if I wanted to do a federal clerkship or work in biglaw chances seem very low at WI, Wisconsin might have less services available to students than WashU and Michigan. If you compare the two schools, the overall employment numbers are similar (seehttps://www.lstreports.com/schools/cardozo/andhttps://www.lstreports.com/schools/fordham/), but inside those numbers is where the difference appears. Thanks for the message! Only freshmen year do anyone really attend frat parties. These factors alone lead me to tread with great caution. St. Louis is decent sized, but its not a major legal center. I like GW a lot, and I like DC even more, especially as a city to learn law in. First, do your research on job outcomes and locations! I feel it isnt what I want, but should I let geographic location make me forego the best school Ive received a great package from? Northeastern (67) 90,000- total with scholarship taken into consideration 133,509 pros: location, practical experience, have interested fields cons: lower rank, competition with BC and BU students 2. Thanks for the question! As far as WashU vs Wisconsin, these are schools that give you different outcomes as well. Its close though, and I can see either outcome being completely reasonable. It usually lasts a year (or two), after which well, you can pretty much write your own ticket to a law firm of your choice . Im also a first generation college student so there is a lot for me to comprehend on my own right now so any guidance would be greatly appreciated! So, as long as the school takes a reasonable portion of LLMs, its a plan that can work well. UCLA is No. But unless hes strongly committed to that pathway, its hard to ignore that the UNC debt load is so minimal that he will walk away from law school with a full range of career options. In other words, about $100K more in total debt to attend Fordham. Its funny how the Fordham vs Cardozo decision has come up quite a bit in the comments here but you can see why since its a tough one. For me, prestige doesnt help much if you have middling grades, and at good law schools that can easily happenthe competition is fierce. And so you have to balance that kind of cost against what your career goals are. As they say, it never hurts to ask. LA) is appealing to me. I am 99% sure I will accept the offer. It can be eye-opening! Thanks for the question! I dont really have a sense of how much better these opportunities would be compared to Yale at sticker with my goals. Im asking this question early because Im guessing its one Im gonna need answered later in this cycle. I could maybe justify going to a school at sticker if I knew for certain that I would be able to make use of an LRAP. How Do You Wear A Crop Top With Leggings? You see some interesting things there, namely that the employment scores arent all that dissimilar and that Tenn does better on under-employment. Is the better ranking worth the extra $100k? So again I dont see it being worth the money. A clerkship is one of the most coveted professional experiences you can have right after law school. For someone who has never been in debt before, I am pretty concerned about having that financial obligation limit my career options to only the highest paying/highest pressure jobs. I am not interested in big law, but I am interested in clerking (preferably federal to help with future academia dreams), working for the government (potentially federal, though I could be happy with state probably as quality of life and a reasonable work week is important to me), or in another public service role. Similar to a commenter from a couple of years ago, I am down to the wire between Georgetown with the full ride Blume scholarship (dedicated faculty mentorship, ability to do 2 clinics, small cohort of PI folks) or Harvard with their max financial aid, which is rare and amazing (though is it really amazing that I grew up dirt poor? First and foremost, I want to thank all of yall at PowerScore I took a full-length LSAT prep course last summer, as well as a couple hours of private LSAT tutoring and admissions consulting. I can learn and practice the sport at a gym anywhere, but the best place I can think of to improve my skills as sharply and quickly as possible would be there. Thanks for all your advice on here. Thanks for any advice! Im at a bit of a disadvantage here since I dont specialize in health care related programs, so please take the below with that in mind . I did not, however, apply to the schools you listed above. USC has a similar overall cost, better employment figures, more federal clerkships, and a better large firm employment rate:https://www.lstreports.com/compare/usc/fordham/. In cases such as that, more highly-ranked schools will often at least come to the table with an offer of admission. </p> <p>Certainly, prestige isn't the deciding factor in my search of colleges. I have some savings to cover cost of living (and likely a small chunk of tuition), so I anticipate WashU would leave me with $80K to $100K in debt. I could not stay in Lexington, VA after graduating as I would need to be in a bigger city than that. Heres what a full analysis for a single school looks like: School: COA $XXX per year (including living expenses etc.) Apologies if Ive been asking too many questions and sincerely appreciate you taking time to answer them. employers hire on school name and class rank/grades, and not so much on which school are the best at environmental law. As a comparison, although the data was limited, only 22.2% of Vandy students stayed in Tennessee and 12.2% of students went to New York: At Emory, 56.7% stayed in Georgia (much greater percent indicating stronger local ties as well as a stronger Atlanta legal market), and for New York it was also good, at 10.1%: The numbers show the top 3 practice states for the grads of each school. Also its Yale (who turns down Yale?)! Rationally speaking,its worth taking the money at a lower ranked school when the anticipated benefit of attending such a school outweighs the opportunity cost of not attending it. Ive narrowed my choices down to three waitlisted top 50 schools and Villanova. The Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine has been awarded the National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) Stemmler Fund for 2023-24 to support its innovative approaches to medical student assessment. Can yous tart by posting the debt/job/rankings analysis using the LST Reports/USNews/Above the Law in the style I used for I did Nikki and Dakota above? Thank you so much for posting, I really appreciate the input! Yeah, to be honest it will, and that goes even for those in-state jobs. I do want my law job to involve science in some way (I have an M.S. Villanova is roughly comparable to BU, American or GWU and probably stronger than Providence or Northeastern.
,i'd agree its comparable to american or a fordham
,chocolate what makes you think Bucknell is better than Lehigh? WashU gives you more options, and may well be worth the extra $60K given your stated preferences. Update! GW is a great school and Im a fan, but the numbers favor UCLA across the board:https://www.lstreports.com/compare/gw/ucla/. I ask because I did my own calculations using the estimate cost from both schools and here is what I got: GW: School est. Im from Long Island and want to get into NYC big law.. at least thats my plan for now. The fact that both UC has set you up to have great 1L summer experience with a paid fellowship. The article above, although not written by me, talks about the prestige factor. Heres what I ended up focusing on from what you said above: Despite not being interested in biglaw, I think I want to keep my options open to work at a respected/prestigious firm in Madison after law school for a couple of reasons.. The average student at Harvard Law can easily get a callback from a BIGLAW firm in NYC. They excelled in college, on their applications, and perhaps most importantlyon their LSAT scores. Youve already done the excellent and most helpful work of establishing the price, so lets look at what you are buying: https://www.lawschooltransparency.com/schools/compare/harvard/michigan/northwestern. Look at the facts instead as much as you can:). I really dont know what to do. Thanks and please let me knwo what YOU decide, because thats what important here! Based on the pool of people he has spoken to, the consensus is leaning towards Harvard and the better choice which is the advice in your article. The 3+3 program in the end only saves me about $2,000 because I have a lot of aid. Villanova Universitys 2022 Rankings Villanova University is ranked #49 in National Universities. This isnt undergrad anymore, and when someone is heading into law school and looking at possibly significant debt loads, we want a more defined understanding/view of possible directions. I would take summer courses, but I need to work and USC has limited financial aid during the summer. If youd like, you can post the info and Ill weigh in, but this all starts with gathering as much data as possible, using debt calculators to see monthly payments, comparing job outcomes, and so on. I feel like those rankings are always changing, so I cant tell how reliable they are each year. Its also notable that the 1L class at Texas is much smaller than Georgetown, which is huge (576 1Ls at GULC in 2016 vs 295 at Texas). A dream might be State, or an agency, or maybe legislative. This means the school is very selective. People do that a lot and they dont always follow through FYI. Of the two, Vanderbilt is closer to having a full-scale national presence than is Emory; Emory is decidedly more a southern region school than a national reputation school, but it is still well-known in legal circles. Assuming these are among the most qualified students in the entering class, competition for a spot in the top-10% of the class is likely to be keen. Im currently a couple days from making a final call. and focus on items 1, 3, 4.LR.A, and 6 in there. Why is it ranked so low? Im not entirely sure which legal field Id like to study/work in, so my main concern is that I wouldnt have as many opportunities to explore internships/jobs at UT as I would at Georgetown. NYU gave me almost twice as much scholarship money, and Michigan refused to up their offer. Im a big city person through and through, so I will definitely consider the "busy suburb" feel of the area as I make my decision. Heres what Id do: contact the Texas admissions office (call and try to speak with someone who can make a decision; if you cant, then email. Not sure if I want to do big law. I missed your post back to me! Ive assumed its WashU in St. Louis but I should double-check) and UVA. Second, if we set HLS aside for the time being, it becomes Michigan vs Northwestern. Thanks also for letting me know the final decisionI really appreciate that! BYU has a great alumni network, with connections all over the country, but I dont know if it will be enough for me to land the jobs and experience I want. Its a deeply personal decision that depends on several factors. All rights reserved. The one advantage you have over Nikki is that even though your margin costs are the same (the $100K), your overall cost is lower since you will come out with $127K total. Im glad that your visit to BC went wellBoston is obviously a great town (by the way, I hear great things about St. Louis as wellIve had a number of friends spend time there who actually loved it). Depending on how things shake out, I think you could attend either of these schools and be happy and successful. I dont know for sure if Id want to do biglaw or clerk, but GMU doesnt really give me the option. They have a semester in DC program where you can intern for various government departments, so this would be incredibly helping in landing a job at a federal agency. I think the writing is on the wall unless you absolutely would be miserable at Illinois. And, weight the more recent grads more heavily in your analysis. This is an interesting one. I can see why youd be leaning towards WUSTL now, and it would be hard to argue against that decision. Waiting a year just doesnt make sense to me. In my opinion thats the best place for you to start here. I will note that all three schools have strong environmental programs and centers for climate studyColumbias is especially well regarded. Regarding my acceptances, I was accepted to Hofstra, NYLS and Pace all with conditional scholarships. I have a similar dilemma between choosing between law schools who have offered me a lot in scholarship funds versus a law school with a more noticeable name. Antonia Leonard is an education expert who has dedicated her life to helping students achieve their academic goals. LSU is of course far cheaper than Tulane on straight costs, but you are right that biglaw becomes unlikely (4.9% biglaw placement for LSU). Thanks for the message and for being a loyal listener of the podcast! Thanks for the questions. But for that to be the case, she has to be fully committed to what she wants because that course of action requires considerable time and effort. Yes, Emory does well at biglaw, but the rest of their employment numbers arent so great as to suggest its a great trade to take on debt. The head start in life you get with no debt from a school that good is just unparalleled in my opinion. I am interested in working at a small to midsize firm doing Trust and Estate Law. Thank you for responding! Your chances are slightly better at BU due to their LSAT medians being lower, if I recall correctly. My undergraduate degree was earned at SLU and I liked attending school in the St. Louis area. Required fields are marked *. Armstrong, who has been out of jail with an ankle monitor since bailing out in 2017, . You want to be happy and that will help your grades most likely if you are happier. 82% employment, 18% with clerkship or biglaw. If you dont have some of the info, ask. If I attend SLU I would choose their Healthcare Law program (ranked #1) with a dual degree in Healthcare Administration to increase my employment opportunities. So, between Florida and Miami, Id choose Florida. Ive received decisions from Fordham and Cardozo. I have received a $30, 000 per year scholarship Suffolk University, Full Ride albeit with a conditional Public Interest Fellowship from UMASS Darthmouth, and $16, 000 from Loyola in Chicago. The answer there is crucial because ASU would win over IU in almost every other scenario. So, heres what I know Im working with: ASU has offered a full scholarship, as have WashU and Boston U. Boston College has offered $35K/year. Theres a ton to like about the location but you should know what you are getting yourself into if you go there. I think that your base question was about passing up Emory, and while I dont have all the data, what I see tells me that it wouldnt be a bad choice for you to do that. But if you cant or prefer GW, then you need to consider that carefully. I will be doing the bar exam here in Singapore and then my pupillage at an intl law firm. Usually it takes a very big name to overcome that debt burden, and we dont have that here. We just need help on deciding if the ranked school is better or the free tuition. Id wager theyll come back and give you a much improved offer. Should I just defer to next year and try taking the test again and try getting into my dream school Columbia? The full 2022 rankings results can be accessed on the U.S. News Best Colleges website. I would appreciate any advice you may have, thank you! One is from Washingnton University in St. Louis for 70,000. Please let me know if this helps, and good luck with the decision. But each person makes their own determination. Its also tough on the WL schools because Emory seems to have been struggling a bit recently, yet thats your preferred location, and WashU is the strongest of the three employment-wise, but less of an interest for you location-wise. I have a large community in both the East Bay and NYC, but would ultimately like to settle down in California (most likely Oakland). Thats pretty much the simple trade here, and its basically as if someone walked into your living room and said give me a check and instead of Minnesota you can go to UChicago. I know this is so so so hard. The main exception is that Emory places substantially more students in biglaw, but again, Im not interested in working for a big law firm. Next, about your connections. I am from the midwest but attended undergrad in the South. Just hoping Gtowns doesnt continue in the wrong direction, while UTs continues to go up! I know I want to practice in Boston, MA regardless of where I go to law school, and I do plan on negotiating my scholarship with Northeastern,though I am not sure if they will be very flexible. If hes serious about pursuing that direction, that 40% difference is what hes paying for with the higher Vanderbilt COA. 84% employment, 30% with clerkship or biglaw. So much of this is about you, your goals, where you will perform well, which school you like the most, and so on that theres no way for me to add anything here thats insightful! Go to BC, have more debt but have potentially better job prospects, or go to WashU, have less debt but also worse job prospects in big law? I hope that helps, and Id love to hear back on the choice you make! Schools are typically willing to negotiate the amount of aid they offer, especially if a comparable school has offered you significantly more money. your first year grades will have a massive and determining effect on your chances for biglaw jobs and clerkships, so you want to start well. A caveat: if Fancy Law School is either Harvard or Yale and you plan on pursuing an academic career.
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